Changing times, and quieter nights, for Croydon’s oldest pub

The Dog and Bull, Surrey Street, the final frontier: our intrepid reviewer last night boldly went where no man, or at least not very many, has gone before

Our dogged culture correspondent KEN TOWL spent the night, and nearly six quid a pint, checking out the refurbed Dog and Bull, with its ‘banging’ tunes, new high security and its not-so-new beer garden.
Photos: SHIRLEY BIGGIN-HILL

Party venue: £6 a pint and loads of marketing material

When a dog has too many teething troubles, it doesn’t bite, and Surrey Street’s new dog in town has plenty of teething trouble. The Dog and Bull, renamed The Dog, had what its pubco owners described as a soft opening yesterday and I went along to check it out. Who doesn’t love a soft opening, after all?

Sashaying past the conspicuous security staff who were guarding the alley that leads to the place formally known as the beer garden (now “The Wilderness©”), I found myself competing with a buzzing post-work Friday pub crowd for the attention of the bar staff at the small island bar at the front of the pub.

The five (five!) staff behind the bar were struggling, avoiding eye contact with customers, themselves queuing to use the two tills with which they appeared to be unfamiliar. The traditional beer pumps that used to adorn the front of the bar as you enter off Surrey Street market have been relegated – as if hidden – to the back of the bar. Instead, there are serried ranks of brightly coloured alternative alcohols, many of them carrying the branding of Laine’s.

When I finally managed to get served (£5.75 for a pint of Sharp’s Atlantic – one of just two cask ale on offer – and £6.60 for Inch’s cider), we moved to a table in the mostly empty interior of the pub and looked out into The Wilderness© through the back window.

It all looked very similar to the beer garden of The Dog and Bull.

There were differences, though. The burger outlet was closed now, and a handful of the heated booths had been replaced by what looked like miniature Swiss chalets. Apart from the lack of food and the Alpine architecture, the main difference was a paint job, a vaguely psychedelic camouflage effect designed, no doubt, to insinuate a “clubby” vibe into the space.

Laine’s lines: the cask ale pumps in Croydon’s oldest pub have been hidden at the back of the bar, replaced by these colourful drinks offering ‘zest’, ‘mosaic’ and ‘mango’

Inside, the clubby vibe was characterised mostly by too-loud music that made it difficult to have a conversation. No wonder no one was sitting there.

Using sign language over the noise, my mate Shirley suggested that we venture down the back stairs and out into The Wilderness©, where all the atmosphere seemed to be and where we might be able to actually hear each other speak.

Outside, and past the hut that functions as a second bar with a more limited drinks selection, we found free seats at a table not too far from one genuine change to the centuries-old pub, the “DJ booth”. The DJ was playing a genre of music best described as background, which was inoffensive and, after a while, barely discernible behind the hubbub of conversation.

Looks familiar: the back room has had its comfy armchairs replaced and some fairy lights added, but is otherwise seemingly little changed

The DJ, or rather the music that he played, has been a bit of a bone of contention for this particular Dog. According to their new website, Laine, the owners of the pub, were offering the possibility of having a DJ playing music in The Wilderness© late into the night, which they wanted to keep open up to 2am and 3am on Saturdays and Sundays.

The website claims that they aspire to be “a highly relevant, positive and respectful contributor to the richness of the culture of the areas in which we operate”, but they had not consulted with any of the residents of the flats which overlook the DJ booth, nor bothered with the niceties of a legally required licensing application for the later openings.

Since Inside Croydon reported this earlier in the week, the proposed opening times have been changed.

More routine pub opening hours are now being advertised on the website and on the flyers that adorned every table: there would be an “eclectic mix of summer sounds” from 5pm to 10pm on Fridays and from 2pm to 10pm on Saturdays. This dog might bark, but it wouldn’t bite. For now, at least.

No numbers: despite spending £125,000 and five weeks on a refurb, no one has put any numbers on the tables

We wondered how the pub would cope next weekend. On Saturday, every pub television in Croydon will be tuned to the FA Cup final to see Crystal Palace play one of the most important matches of their proud history. Shirley looked up at the supposedly “big screen” above The Wilderness©. It is pitifully small.

“It’s pitifully small,” said Shirley. We realised that we were attracting the attention of a man at the end of our table, so we lowered our voices a little. Shirley pointed out that there were QR codes on each table next to signs which invited us to order from our tables. Yes, I thought, you’ll need that next week – no one is going to want to wait 10 minutes to get served at the bar while the match is on.

“Let’s get another drink,” said Shirley, and scanned the code. A frame popped up saying “Welcome to The Dog”, inviting us to “Order to table”. And it asked: “What is your table number?”

At this point, the Interested Party at the end of the table leaned in and said, “It’s not working. It will be in the next week or two.”

Quietened Wilderness©: after the post-work crowd had gone, The Dog and Bull’s beer garden, which is overlooked by residential flats, was much quieter. Conspicuous security ensured customers went inside at 11pm

“Do you work here?” asked Shirley, never one for subtlety.

“Yes,” replied the Interested Party, “I do. What do you do?” Which seemed a bit rude. Or unnecessarily suspicious. Had the staff been briefed to expect an Inside Croydon “secret shopper”?

Shirley chose not to elucidate. She lived in Sutton now, she said, and spoke, instead, of times long ago when she had worked for Croydon Council and had often come for a drink in the beer garden of The Dog and Bull after work. “It’s changed,” she said.

The Interested Party nodded and said, “You have to change with the times. Change is good.”

We fancied a change, because change is good, so we popped down to the under-new-management Royal Standard for quick service, pints for less than £5 and a leisurely chat under the Flyover before circling back via a stop at the Green Dragon for quick service and a beguiling choice of beers.

We wanted to see how the pub formerly known The Dog and Bull would wind down, to see how softly a soft opening would close.

By 9.50pm, most of the post-work crowd had moved on and The Wilderness© was somewhat cooler than it had been (not in a good way), so we occupied one of the heated booths and waited for the DJ to sign off. It all went like clockwork from there.

They’re going to need a bigger screen: it’s pitifully small

At 10pm, the music stopped. At 11pm, we were approached by one of the two security guys and politely but firmly told to go inside because The Wilderness© was closed.

We found a table inside and got another drink, easily enough this time. There weren’t too many customers, and the staff seemed to have got the hang of the new tills by this time.

At midnight, the other security guy told us politely but firmly to leave, and we spilled compliantly into Surrey Street in the first minute of Saturday morning.

It remains to be seen whether the pub formerly known as The Dog and Bull gets its table-ordering system sorted out ahead of the cup final. To adapt a phrase from the film Jaws, they are going to need a bigger screen.

A DJ playing inoffensive tunes at 4.30pm isn’t going to cut it, I suspect.

In the longer term, we have yet to see whether Laine’s aspirations to keep their neighbours awake until 3am every Sunday morning have been shelved permanently, or just put on a back burner.

Let’s hope councillors on the licensing committee are not afraid to keep this Dog on a tight leash.

Read more: What a load of old Bull! Chain to rename Croydon’s oldest pub
Read more: Dog and Bull pub’s new owners accused of ‘cultural vandalism’


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21 Responses to Changing times, and quieter nights, for Croydon’s oldest pub

  1. Michael Sales says:

    Not a very good start for the dog, and the bull is missing. its not even in the garden either. It’s a shame at £6.60 a pint, people like to see old pulling pumps being used, even if it’s a new ale being drawn up out of a barrel, maybe stack them high and sell pints cheap might be better it’s too expensive.

  2. A change for the worse, it seems.

    “The dog’s bollocks” is an expression to describe something that is considered to be the best or of very high quality. Thanks to Laine’s botch job, they’ve rendered it as “The Dog is bollocks”, a place to avoid. I wish it ill.

    On the other hand, it is good news for the revitalised Royal Standard and other nearby hostelries

  3. Carl Lucas says:

    They should give it to Esther Sutton to sort out, she could be our Tim Martin, only not a complete nobhead!

    • Isn’t that the point, though, Carl? There really wasn’t much that needed “sorting out”, beyond a few superficial touches here and there perhaps?

      What has been done is a typically Laine-branded makeover. But am really not sure that people will want to have unnecessary extra costs – like paying the wages of security heavies – added on to the cost of their pints. And we don’t know what the food offer will be like yet.

      • Carl Lucas says:

        As in Laine cocked up and now it needs sorting out, and that’s no cock and bull story!

  4. Dave Llewellyn says:

    Funny, I was there last night and the place was really busy and everyone seemed to be having a good time. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean nobody likes it. Croydon centre has been crying out for a pub with a decent beer garden to attract the younger crowd. There’s still plenty of quiet “old man” pubs if you don’t like it…

    • Frank says:

      Dave – the old Dog & Bull already had a decent (and very popular) beer garden… very little needed to be changed. The addition of a DJ playing background music, and bouncers, sounds absolutely dreadful and is only going to ramp up their costs.

      It’s difficult to see where the £125K in refurb costs has been spent – even the new QR codes look like they’ve been attached with old rusty screws

  5. Joe Wicking says:

    Disappointed to see that Inch’s is their only apple cider on tap. Absolute garbage cider made from concentrate.

    Almost as bad as the newly opened Tokia Square which didn’t have any apple cider at their bar at all.

    • Apple cider? Dear god that’s the first step towards becoming a street drinker

      • You being a subject matter expert Christopher. Tell us about the other steps, that we might avoid your fall from grace into the gutter

      • Joe Wicking says:

        Well I did end up having a nice pint on the seating outside Art & Craft after checking out The Dog. Does that count as street drinking?

    • Liam johnson says:

      Tokia Square is an Asian food hall… Cider is not popular in Asia.

      I was also disappointed that they didn’t serve kebabs or big macs.

      • Joe Wicking says:

        They had the Kopparberg mixed fruits and strawberry & lime flavours of cider, so it’s not a case of what’s popular in Asia.

        My point is the lack of ‘proper’ apple cider as opposed to the flavoured ones.

  6. Keith Ebdon says:

    What an absolute shambles under the new owners, there was nothing wrong with the DogandBull supplying Youngs on handpump in the first place!

  7. Tom atkins says:

    I actually thought what an excellent vibe it was last night. Change or die has always been the mantra. Maybe it’s time to move aside and let other enjoy this one and you go to the places you like. I was there with 13 people from work…we cant all be wrong.

    • Change for change’s sake seems to be Laine’s mantra. That and like it or lump it. It’s their money. Time will tell whether they will kill a 700- year institution.
      From the arrogance they have shown it, and its neighbours, thus far, it appears they don’t give a toss either way.
      Though they have altered a Grade II-listed building without permission.
      The dog house, indeed.

  8. Chris Flynn says:

    Thank you for your dedicated service to journalism, Ken!

  9. Jack Griffin says:

    I was in a Laine’s pub yesterday (Black Lion, W6) and – apart from the (very good pint of) Tim Taylor’s Landlord feeling expensive at £6.20 – it was rather good.

    You know: traditional, like The D&B used to be.

    Perhaps theyre planning to bugger that up at some point in the future too.

    • On Friday, for their “soft opening” (everyone loves a soft opening), the Dog and Bull was using the Black Lion’s payments system when customers wanted to buy their drinks. At 30p less than the Black Lion, too.

      Did Laine make any unapproved changes to a Grade II-listed building in W6, too?

      • Jack griffin says:

        Hard to say as never been there before so no idea what it was like in the past.

        The bar is fitted out traditionally – varnished wood etc everywhere. Is in VGC so either very well maintained or, perhaps, new.

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